1 00:00:22,650 --> 00:00:09,100 welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast 2 00:00:30,250 --> 00:00:25,510 hello and welcome to the skeptic Zone 3 00:00:32,950 --> 00:00:30,260 episode number 404 for they've 404 fact 4 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:32,960 404 I remember that number in the early 5 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:35,210 days of the internet if you remember 6 00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:37,010 that number - it might take you a little 7 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:40,730 bit episode number 404 for the 17th of 8 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:43,610 July 2016 Richard Saunders here with you 9 00:00:48,700 --> 00:00:46,370 from Sydney Australia coming up on this 10 00:00:52,750 --> 00:00:48,710 week's show we speak to dr. Danny 11 00:00:55,060 --> 00:00:52,760 chambers a vet a vet in the UK who has 12 00:00:57,670 --> 00:00:55,070 written a very strong petition at 13 00:01:00,640 --> 00:00:57,680 change.org and of course that link will 14 00:01:03,070 --> 00:01:00,650 be on the show notes regarding other 15 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:03,080 vets using homeopathy to treat animals 16 00:01:09,190 --> 00:01:06,050 and during our chat with Danny you'll 17 00:01:11,649 --> 00:01:09,200 understand very clearly why he's taking 18 00:01:13,810 --> 00:01:11,659 this strong stand and we applaud him for 19 00:01:16,330 --> 00:01:13,820 that of course and during this segment 20 00:01:18,340 --> 00:01:16,340 you'll hear a clip from a BBC news 21 00:01:22,450 --> 00:01:18,350 program with another vet in the UK 22 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:22,460 making an outrageous claim about 23 00:01:28,660 --> 00:01:25,850 homeopathy and what a can cure and if he 24 00:01:31,569 --> 00:01:28,670 was making the same claim for humans 25 00:01:35,260 --> 00:01:31,579 well in Australia at least that would be 26 00:01:37,719 --> 00:01:35,270 illegal outrageous claims by a homeopath 27 00:01:39,490 --> 00:01:37,729 who would have thunk it anyway coming up 28 00:01:41,950 --> 00:01:39,500 at the top of the show we speak to dr. 29 00:01:43,599 --> 00:01:41,960 Danny chambers I am sure you'll find 30 00:01:45,789 --> 00:01:43,609 this a very interesting interview and 31 00:01:49,289 --> 00:01:45,799 afterwards I would encourage you to go 32 00:01:52,899 --> 00:01:49,299 to change.org and help Danny out by 33 00:01:55,569 --> 00:01:52,909 adding to his petition following that we 34 00:01:59,080 --> 00:01:55,579 have a an update to a story we brought 35 00:02:01,270 --> 00:01:59,090 you a few months ago about the ABC 36 00:02:04,959 --> 00:02:01,280 television network here in Australia a 37 00:02:09,100 --> 00:02:04,969 science show called catalyst and they're 38 00:02:13,810 --> 00:02:09,110 broadcasting of a story or a show called 39 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:13,820 wife ride which was scare mongering more 40 00:02:19,809 --> 00:02:15,730 or less about mobile phone radiation 41 00:02:23,430 --> 00:02:19,819 here the update what has the what has 42 00:02:26,620 --> 00:02:23,440 the review initiated by the ABC found 43 00:02:29,230 --> 00:02:26,630 following that it's the cast files the 44 00:02:31,930 --> 00:02:29,240 cast files without new reporter dr. 45 00:02:33,420 --> 00:02:31,940 Cassandra Perryman this week dr. 46 00:02:37,459 --> 00:02:33,430 Cassandra isn't going 47 00:02:40,649 --> 00:02:37,469 to check the homework so to speak of 48 00:02:43,110 --> 00:02:40,659 Australia's best psychics as published 49 00:02:45,809 --> 00:02:43,120 in their magazine international psychics 50 00:02:47,399 --> 00:02:45,819 directory why an Australian magazine 51 00:02:49,679 --> 00:02:47,409 about psychics is called the 52 00:02:53,399 --> 00:02:49,689 international psychics directory I don't 53 00:02:56,089 --> 00:02:53,409 know I'm not psychic anyway dr. 54 00:03:01,949 --> 00:02:56,099 Cassandra will be checking their 55 00:03:05,039 --> 00:03:01,959 predictions for the Year 2015 2015 so we 56 00:03:07,849 --> 00:03:05,049 can actually check to see how they went 57 00:03:09,929 --> 00:03:07,859 were they accurate did they predict 58 00:03:12,979 --> 00:03:09,939 wonderful things that really happened 59 00:03:16,500 --> 00:03:12,989 were their predictions true 60 00:03:18,420 --> 00:03:16,510 coming up on the cast files and to round 61 00:03:20,940 --> 00:03:18,430 off the show it's back to Sydney 62 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:20,950 skeptics in the pub where we have a bit 63 00:03:26,369 --> 00:03:24,250 of fun bending spoons which we always do 64 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:26,379 Sydney skeptics in the pub is always a 65 00:03:33,390 --> 00:03:29,530 good time and uh oh the last one we did 66 00:03:36,420 --> 00:03:33,400 just last week had had my good friend 67 00:03:39,149 --> 00:03:36,430 Ian Bryce talking about gravitational 68 00:03:40,740 --> 00:03:39,159 waves a fascinating evening a 69 00:03:42,629 --> 00:03:40,750 fascinating evening find out more about 70 00:03:45,420 --> 00:03:42,639 Sydney skeptics in the pub by following 71 00:03:47,099 --> 00:03:45,430 the links in the show notes from this 72 00:03:49,789 --> 00:03:47,109 week's episode or just Google Sydney 73 00:03:52,830 --> 00:03:49,799 skeptics in the pub and speaking of 74 00:03:54,839 --> 00:03:52,840 skeptics Australian skeptics the next 75 00:03:57,000 --> 00:03:54,849 Sydney dinner meeting all of us join 76 00:04:00,210 --> 00:03:57,010 skeptics we'll be on the 6th of August 77 00:04:04,140 --> 00:04:00,220 not far off now and the topic is how to 78 00:04:04,979 --> 00:04:04,150 make skeptics even more attractive as if 79 00:04:07,069 --> 00:04:04,989 that was possible 80 00:04:10,559 --> 00:04:07,079 are there gender differences in 81 00:04:12,689 --> 00:04:10,569 perceptions of attraction what are we 82 00:04:16,860 --> 00:04:12,699 looking for in a potential mate can you 83 00:04:18,509 --> 00:04:16,870 find somebody attractive online and what 84 00:04:21,629 --> 00:04:18,519 other features make us more or less 85 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:21,639 attractive even skeptics now this will 86 00:04:26,129 --> 00:04:24,130 be a talk by dr. martin graf reader of 87 00:04:28,589 --> 00:04:26,139 psychology at the University of New 88 00:04:31,230 --> 00:04:28,599 South Wales sounds like a very 89 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:31,240 interesting dinner indeed and you can 90 00:04:37,409 --> 00:04:33,330 find out more about that at skeptics 91 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:37,419 dot-com dot au well speaking of dinner I 92 00:04:44,850 --> 00:04:39,210 think it's time for me to run downstairs 93 00:04:47,050 --> 00:04:44,860 have some spaghetti spaghetti with some 94 00:04:51,490 --> 00:04:47,060 nice source 95 00:04:53,260 --> 00:04:51,500 a bit of jalapenos mixed in yeah that's 96 00:04:55,870 --> 00:04:53,270 a good combination it's a good 97 00:05:25,269 --> 00:04:55,880 combination while I enjoy that I hope 98 00:05:29,899 --> 00:05:27,619 joining me now all the way from 99 00:05:31,249 --> 00:05:29,909 Edinburgh in Scotland I don't know if 100 00:05:33,379 --> 00:05:31,259 there's an Edinburgh somewhere else but 101 00:05:34,959 --> 00:05:33,389 this one's in Scotland dr. Danny 102 00:05:38,629 --> 00:05:34,969 chambers hello Danny 103 00:05:40,909 --> 00:05:38,639 hello very nice to catch up with you and 104 00:05:43,189 --> 00:05:40,919 you've been making the news lately in 105 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:43,199 the UK and dare I say around the world 106 00:05:46,730 --> 00:05:45,210 with your strong stance and your open 107 00:05:51,170 --> 00:05:46,740 letter which we'll get to a bit later 108 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:51,180 about homeopathy and veterinary practice 109 00:05:55,939 --> 00:05:53,610 and this is an area we don't touch on 110 00:05:58,309 --> 00:05:55,949 very much at all it's usually we talking 111 00:05:59,839 --> 00:05:58,319 about homeopathy for humans but when you 112 00:06:02,869 --> 00:05:59,849 look at it humans are just another 113 00:06:05,149 --> 00:06:02,879 animal what what prompted you to take 114 00:06:07,339 --> 00:06:05,159 such a strong stand and write this open 115 00:06:09,260 --> 00:06:07,349 letter about homeopathy and veterinaries 116 00:06:12,049 --> 00:06:09,270 well it's actually a combination of 117 00:06:14,540 --> 00:06:12,059 events that all accumulated in this in 118 00:06:16,579 --> 00:06:14,550 me writing this petition and for about 119 00:06:18,769 --> 00:06:16,589 three years I've been writing to the 120 00:06:22,119 --> 00:06:18,779 veterinary Times which is obviously the 121 00:06:24,939 --> 00:06:22,129 sort of professionals journal about them 122 00:06:27,739 --> 00:06:24,949 about homeopathy and asking why 123 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:27,749 homeopathy sir allowed to maintain the 124 00:06:32,559 --> 00:06:29,490 registration its veterinary surgeons 125 00:06:36,049 --> 00:06:32,569 when it's so unscientific um then this 126 00:06:38,239 --> 00:06:36,059 year in particular I saw a few cases or 127 00:06:40,759 --> 00:06:38,249 last year so it did say last year I saw 128 00:06:43,579 --> 00:06:40,769 a few cases that could have been treated 129 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:43,589 with you know fairly common diseases for 130 00:06:47,089 --> 00:06:45,330 instance um hyperthyroidism in the 131 00:06:48,860 --> 00:06:47,099 cattle and Cushing's disease and horses 132 00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:48,870 that was really common where there are 133 00:06:54,259 --> 00:06:50,849 licensed proven products that work 134 00:06:56,779 --> 00:06:54,269 really well and you would expect those 135 00:07:00,639 --> 00:06:56,789 animals to go on and live for several 136 00:07:03,379 --> 00:07:00,649 years with no signs of the disease and 137 00:07:06,769 --> 00:07:03,389 people had ended up giving homeopathy 138 00:07:07,939 --> 00:07:06,779 instead of these treatments and so the 139 00:07:10,129 --> 00:07:07,949 animals had gone downhill 140 00:07:12,230 --> 00:07:10,139 um one or two of them had to be 141 00:07:14,779 --> 00:07:12,240 euthanized and the others would just 142 00:07:16,699 --> 00:07:14,789 took a lot longer to to get right and 143 00:07:18,390 --> 00:07:16,709 what would upset me was that these 144 00:07:20,700 --> 00:07:18,400 weren't people who weren't 145 00:07:22,290 --> 00:07:20,710 willing to pay for treatment they 146 00:07:24,990 --> 00:07:22,300 thought they're doing the best for their 147 00:07:27,270 --> 00:07:25,000 animal and they for whatever reason 148 00:07:29,370 --> 00:07:27,280 thought homeopathy was the best way to 149 00:07:31,290 --> 00:07:29,380 treat it and it turned out some of these 150 00:07:32,129 --> 00:07:31,300 people had been getting the advice from 151 00:07:34,580 --> 00:07:32,139 bets um 152 00:07:36,870 --> 00:07:34,590 not just on the road off their own back 153 00:07:38,850 --> 00:07:36,880 and then the third thing that made me 154 00:07:41,580 --> 00:07:38,860 decide to sort of start their petition 155 00:07:44,310 --> 00:07:41,590 when I did was the one in the UK that 156 00:07:45,659 --> 00:07:44,320 was trying to make them you know Simon 157 00:07:49,290 --> 00:07:45,669 Singh and the good thinking of 158 00:07:53,879 --> 00:07:49,300 authorities I campaigned to to get the 159 00:07:55,950 --> 00:07:53,889 NHS the blacklist homeopathy so that's 160 00:07:57,360 --> 00:07:55,960 that combination of events that made me 161 00:07:59,640 --> 00:07:57,370 decide to do something with the 162 00:08:01,260 --> 00:07:59,650 veterinary side of things right of 163 00:08:03,060 --> 00:08:01,270 course then it's our good friend Michael 164 00:08:06,540 --> 00:08:03,070 Marshall from the good thinking society 165 00:08:08,340 --> 00:08:06,550 who put me on to this whole story in the 166 00:08:10,890 --> 00:08:08,350 first place and hooked me up with you 167 00:08:13,469 --> 00:08:10,900 and I'm very grateful for Marsh for for 168 00:08:15,390 --> 00:08:13,479 doing that and you're right it's a 169 00:08:16,890 --> 00:08:15,400 petition of course I'm saying it's an 170 00:08:20,340 --> 00:08:16,900 open letter which I guess it is but 171 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:20,350 really is a petition at change.org I 172 00:08:24,930 --> 00:08:22,810 think it is nevertheless I'll link 173 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:24,940 directly to that petition folks in the 174 00:08:28,379 --> 00:08:26,530 show notes if you want to check that out 175 00:08:30,719 --> 00:08:28,389 and read it for yourself and and sign 176 00:08:32,909 --> 00:08:30,729 I've certainly signed that petition and 177 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:32,919 as I say we'll get to that petition or 178 00:08:38,130 --> 00:08:35,050 the open letter shortly but I was very 179 00:08:41,790 --> 00:08:38,140 interested Danny just in the last day or 180 00:08:43,260 --> 00:08:41,800 so I was watching your very recent 181 00:08:45,690 --> 00:08:43,270 appearance in fact within the last week 182 00:08:48,269 --> 00:08:45,700 you were on the BBC you're on the BBC 183 00:08:52,050 --> 00:08:48,279 television and news programme and BBC 184 00:08:55,650 --> 00:08:52,060 radio and putting your point of view but 185 00:08:57,960 --> 00:08:55,660 of course as always happens in these 186 00:09:02,730 --> 00:08:57,970 situations that the media love to put on 187 00:09:05,699 --> 00:09:02,740 the opposing opinion to have put their 188 00:09:08,430 --> 00:09:05,709 point of view too and on the same BBC 189 00:09:10,530 --> 00:09:08,440 programme was a lady who claimed her 190 00:09:14,220 --> 00:09:10,540 horse was helped by a homeopathy 191 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:14,230 but the real the real standout for me 192 00:09:20,100 --> 00:09:18,370 was a man by the name of Jeff Johnson 193 00:09:23,940 --> 00:09:20,110 who's a vet who works in the Southeast 194 00:09:26,250 --> 00:09:23,950 of England I believe and he is very 195 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:26,260 strongly for homeopathy and folks let me 196 00:09:31,790 --> 00:09:29,050 just play a quick clip now from that BBC 197 00:09:34,850 --> 00:09:31,800 program where Jeff Johnson makes 198 00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:34,860 an extraordinary claim that's very 199 00:09:38,329 --> 00:09:36,569 different to being I mean for instance 200 00:09:39,889 --> 00:09:38,339 the British Association of homeopathic 201 00:09:41,900 --> 00:09:39,899 veterinary surgeons on their website 202 00:09:44,359 --> 00:09:41,910 have got case reports of dogs being 203 00:09:46,910 --> 00:09:44,369 cured by cancer when Jeff did do you 204 00:09:48,590 --> 00:09:46,920 agree that you do treat cancer and can 205 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:48,600 you cure cancer of homeopathy in your 206 00:09:54,259 --> 00:09:50,970 practice yes I do that case on the 207 00:09:55,699 --> 00:09:54,269 website is one of mine there's three 208 00:09:58,609 --> 00:09:55,709 cases of mine up there and I have 209 00:10:00,859 --> 00:09:58,619 several cases going on at the moment and 210 00:10:02,660 --> 00:10:00,869 that is one reason why people come to me 211 00:10:04,639 --> 00:10:02,670 and if you can get the remedy right and 212 00:10:06,979 --> 00:10:04,649 you can understand the situation you can 213 00:10:09,410 --> 00:10:06,989 understand the animal well enough 214 00:10:11,539 --> 00:10:09,420 homeopathy gives it the ability to be 215 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:11,549 able to heal itself and I have several 216 00:10:16,009 --> 00:10:13,290 cases of cancer more than several many 217 00:10:17,509 --> 00:10:16,019 cases of cancer okay I'm so sorry I'm so 218 00:10:19,009 --> 00:10:17,519 sorry and we're going to have to stop 219 00:10:22,549 --> 00:10:19,019 this discussion right now I mean I know 220 00:10:25,039 --> 00:10:22,559 it's obviously a subject that well Danny 221 00:10:27,350 --> 00:10:25,049 that's an extraordinary claim and if you 222 00:10:31,039 --> 00:10:27,360 extrapolate that of course a dog is 223 00:10:34,819 --> 00:10:31,049 simply a mammal so if homeopathy can 224 00:10:37,730 --> 00:10:34,829 cure cancer in dogs why couldn't it cure 225 00:10:40,369 --> 00:10:37,740 cancer in in humans is where my 226 00:10:42,289 --> 00:10:40,379 thinking's going well that's exactly 227 00:10:44,059 --> 00:10:42,299 right there's one reason I asked him 228 00:10:45,439 --> 00:10:44,069 that question as well as specifically do 229 00:10:48,769 --> 00:10:45,449 you believe you can cure cancer with 230 00:10:50,749 --> 00:10:48,779 homeopathy and and he said he did he 231 00:10:53,809 --> 00:10:50,759 could cure cancer with homeopathy and 232 00:10:55,819 --> 00:10:53,819 had the program not run out of time I 233 00:10:57,019 --> 00:10:55,829 was going to come back and say well you 234 00:10:59,480 --> 00:10:57,029 realize there's a heck of a lot of 235 00:11:01,309 --> 00:10:59,490 medical research as a huge charity in 236 00:11:04,100 --> 00:11:01,319 the UK core cancer research who are 237 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:04,110 trying to find treatments and cures and 238 00:11:09,799 --> 00:11:07,410 therapies for cancer and this vet has 239 00:11:13,009 --> 00:11:09,809 got it got the answer all along and he's 240 00:11:15,139 --> 00:11:13,019 treating dogs with it and um if that 241 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:15,149 doesn't show you how absurd and deluded 242 00:11:19,189 --> 00:11:17,490 their believes are better than that that 243 00:11:23,629 --> 00:11:19,199 that's a really good example of people 244 00:11:25,999 --> 00:11:23,639 who just don't have any objective view 245 00:11:27,379 --> 00:11:26,009 on what they're doing and unfortunately 246 00:11:29,509 --> 00:11:27,389 this guy is a vet 247 00:11:32,239 --> 00:11:29,519 he's um obviously medically trained 248 00:11:34,220 --> 00:11:32,249 obviously passed his exams and yet he 249 00:11:36,919 --> 00:11:34,230 genuinely seems to believe that he is 250 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:36,929 curing cancer in dogs it's really 251 00:11:42,289 --> 00:11:39,689 difficult to accept that there's people 252 00:11:44,519 --> 00:11:42,299 within your own profession offering 253 00:11:48,599 --> 00:11:44,529 advice to the public 254 00:11:50,669 --> 00:11:48,609 rely on them and one reason one of the 255 00:11:52,979 --> 00:11:50,679 main reasons that I've started this 256 00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:52,989 campaign and obviously animal welfare is 257 00:11:59,009 --> 00:11:55,689 perelman I mean you know it's bad for 258 00:12:01,559 --> 00:11:59,019 animal welfare if people aren't giving 259 00:12:04,199 --> 00:12:01,569 proper treatments but for me it's also 260 00:12:06,389 --> 00:12:04,209 you know the standing of the profession 261 00:12:07,859 --> 00:12:06,399 like the professional reputation the 262 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:07,869 fact there's other people that the same 263 00:12:12,389 --> 00:12:10,569 job title as me effect resurgent who 264 00:12:13,619 --> 00:12:12,399 believe that homeopathy can cure cancer 265 00:12:16,019 --> 00:12:13,629 how 266 00:12:19,049 --> 00:12:16,029 why should a member of the public have 267 00:12:21,839 --> 00:12:19,059 to decide which vets a talking sense and 268 00:12:24,329 --> 00:12:21,849 which vets are not giving scientific 269 00:12:27,269 --> 00:12:24,339 medical advice it's not tearing them to 270 00:12:29,189 --> 00:12:27,279 have to make that distinction absolutely 271 00:12:31,259 --> 00:12:29,199 right and I noticed that's one of the 272 00:12:34,469 --> 00:12:31,269 points you're making in in your petition 273 00:12:37,979 --> 00:12:34,479 which again we'll get to before before 274 00:12:39,779 --> 00:12:37,989 long and it's I as I was saying to you 275 00:12:42,599 --> 00:12:39,789 just off air a little while ago Danny 276 00:12:45,359 --> 00:12:42,609 that that interview you did on the BBC 277 00:12:48,059 --> 00:12:45,369 although slightly frustrating because 278 00:12:49,289 --> 00:12:48,069 the the amazing claims were made towards 279 00:12:52,529 --> 00:12:49,299 the end and you really didn't have a 280 00:12:55,529 --> 00:12:52,539 good chance to come back to that claim I 281 00:12:57,989 --> 00:12:55,539 think it's amazing that you hadn't got 282 00:12:59,789 --> 00:12:57,999 him to say that on national TV and 283 00:13:01,739 --> 00:12:59,799 indeed it's gone around the world and 284 00:13:03,839 --> 00:13:01,749 I've just played the clip I think it's 285 00:13:05,999 --> 00:13:03,849 damning quite frankly it's damning that 286 00:13:09,839 --> 00:13:06,009 he's I think invited coming and it says 287 00:13:13,019 --> 00:13:09,849 show how I'm how crazy and deluded these 288 00:13:16,289 --> 00:13:13,029 beliefs are but in in his sort of 289 00:13:18,539 --> 00:13:16,299 defense that if I'm being kind it does 290 00:13:21,119 --> 00:13:18,549 show that I think he genuinely believes 291 00:13:25,199 --> 00:13:21,129 what he's saying and it would show that 292 00:13:27,089 --> 00:13:25,209 all homeopaths and sort of charlatans 293 00:13:29,879 --> 00:13:27,099 who are deliberately trying to rip 294 00:13:32,399 --> 00:13:29,889 people off and trying to just simply 295 00:13:35,129 --> 00:13:32,409 make money you know by peddling what 296 00:13:38,579 --> 00:13:35,139 we'd call nonsense I mean I think it 297 00:13:41,159 --> 00:13:38,589 does show it's almost a bigger problem 298 00:13:44,549 --> 00:13:41,169 when you've got people who believe it to 299 00:13:46,289 --> 00:13:44,559 that extent because he has a belief 300 00:13:49,649 --> 00:13:46,299 system and no amount of evidence is 301 00:13:51,539 --> 00:13:49,659 going to change that and and he's he's 302 00:13:53,669 --> 00:13:51,549 got conviction and he believes he's 303 00:13:55,979 --> 00:13:53,679 doing his best for animals and for 304 00:13:57,719 --> 00:13:55,989 society and that's actually harder to 305 00:13:58,230 --> 00:13:57,729 tackle than someone who's just ripping 306 00:14:01,290 --> 00:13:58,240 people off 307 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:01,300 and they know via you make an excellent 308 00:14:06,710 --> 00:14:03,130 point and it's one that comes up again 309 00:14:10,230 --> 00:14:06,720 and again in the skeptical realms and I 310 00:14:12,660 --> 00:14:10,240 absolutely would have to agree with you 311 00:14:15,560 --> 00:14:12,670 that I would say that he like most 312 00:14:20,490 --> 00:14:15,570 people I meet of this a similar nature 313 00:14:22,530 --> 00:14:20,500 very sincere and very wanting the great 314 00:14:24,750 --> 00:14:22,540 need to help people or help animals in 315 00:14:25,980 --> 00:14:24,760 this situation and very sincere in their 316 00:14:28,079 --> 00:14:25,990 beliefs and what they're doing is 317 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:28,089 correct and it's right and it works 318 00:14:32,910 --> 00:14:30,970 partly because and the woman on the show 319 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:32,920 to who had the problem with the horse is 320 00:14:37,790 --> 00:14:35,410 a great example the wonderful feedback 321 00:14:40,470 --> 00:14:37,800 they get from people who say oh this 322 00:14:42,090 --> 00:14:40,480 amazing homeopathy fixed up my horse on 323 00:14:45,540 --> 00:14:42,100 my dog or my cat or whatever it is 324 00:14:48,470 --> 00:14:45,550 there's no wonder that people like Jeff 325 00:14:51,110 --> 00:14:48,480 Johnson then start to really believe 326 00:14:54,030 --> 00:14:51,120 what they're prescribing actually works 327 00:14:57,090 --> 00:14:54,040 yes and what I would say in that case of 328 00:14:59,639 --> 00:14:57,100 the horses as anyone who's watched that 329 00:15:01,470 --> 00:14:59,649 clip if that is the best example of 330 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:01,480 homeopathic medicine that they could get 331 00:15:05,490 --> 00:15:03,250 to bring on the BBC on national 332 00:15:08,639 --> 00:15:05,500 television was a horse that had no 333 00:15:10,980 --> 00:15:08,649 specific diagnosis and no specific 334 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:10,990 problem with it is now apparently better 335 00:15:17,370 --> 00:15:13,810 and that was the best example they found 336 00:15:19,860 --> 00:15:17,380 to to do for evidence of homeopathy 337 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:19,870 being useful I thought that was pretty 338 00:15:25,170 --> 00:15:23,410 in itself to be honest and and one of 339 00:15:26,970 --> 00:15:25,180 the questions that was put to you is one 340 00:15:29,430 --> 00:15:26,980 that comes up again and again and again 341 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:29,440 where you're stating that there's no 342 00:15:34,019 --> 00:15:32,170 good evidence for this to work it can't 343 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:34,029 work according to the laws of physics 344 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:36,610 etc and then the host turned you and 345 00:15:42,269 --> 00:15:39,610 said well if everything else fails then 346 00:15:45,930 --> 00:15:42,279 why shouldn't people turn to this and 347 00:15:49,860 --> 00:15:45,940 you must hear this a lot yes probably 348 00:15:51,750 --> 00:15:49,870 the most common the most common defense 349 00:15:53,970 --> 00:15:51,760 of homeopathy is that when when 350 00:15:59,819 --> 00:15:53,980 conventional medicine has can go no 351 00:16:02,069 --> 00:15:59,829 further what harm does it do and my 352 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:02,079 argument against that would be well if 353 00:16:06,689 --> 00:16:05,050 you've got to the point when you know 354 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:06,699 obviously I'm a vet so I deal of animals 355 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:09,610 mainly and euthanasia is an option and 356 00:16:11,790 --> 00:16:11,290 you got to the point where something 357 00:16:13,829 --> 00:16:11,800 cannot be 358 00:16:15,780 --> 00:16:13,839 treated and it's going to suffer and 359 00:16:19,199 --> 00:16:15,790 it's going to deteriorate or it is 360 00:16:21,269 --> 00:16:19,209 suffering euthanasia can be the kind of 361 00:16:24,540 --> 00:16:21,279 stuff shouldn't be on suffering 362 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:24,550 yeah and if some who is understandably 363 00:16:31,530 --> 00:16:27,370 desperate to try nd things they're able 364 00:16:33,569 --> 00:16:31,540 to lose their pet they will spend money 365 00:16:35,340 --> 00:16:33,579 on homeopathy and in that case the 366 00:16:37,710 --> 00:16:35,350 animal is suffering longer than it has 367 00:16:41,130 --> 00:16:37,720 to and the owner has been given false 368 00:16:42,540 --> 00:16:41,140 hope and they're spending money when 369 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:42,550 it's you're being charged by a 370 00:16:46,860 --> 00:16:44,290 professional person for something that 371 00:16:48,660 --> 00:16:46,870 won't change the outcome and that I 372 00:16:50,610 --> 00:16:48,670 really think that's that's 373 00:16:53,370 --> 00:16:50,620 unprofessional and it's offering the 374 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:53,380 owners a disservice and at that point 375 00:16:57,509 --> 00:16:55,690 the vet's job is to really you know 376 00:16:59,579 --> 00:16:57,519 counsel the owner and make sure that 377 00:17:01,290 --> 00:16:59,589 they fully understand that they are 378 00:17:03,329 --> 00:17:01,300 making the right decision you thing a 379 00:17:05,069 --> 00:17:03,339 you is the kindest thing to do and you 380 00:17:08,250 --> 00:17:05,079 know some things can't be treated rather 381 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:08,260 than giving you a few more weeks or 382 00:17:14,699 --> 00:17:12,010 months of a bad quality painful life 383 00:17:17,909 --> 00:17:14,709 that the owner thinks is going to maybe 384 00:17:19,230 --> 00:17:17,919 turn things around absolutely agree with 385 00:17:21,179 --> 00:17:19,240 you I think that that's a very good 386 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:21,189 point you make indeed well Danny 387 00:17:25,020 --> 00:17:22,650 wonderful to chat with you 388 00:17:26,819 --> 00:17:25,030 congratulations on taking such a strong 389 00:17:28,290 --> 00:17:26,829 stand and well done on the media by the 390 00:17:31,020 --> 00:17:28,300 way I know can be tough and sometimes 391 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:31,030 you walk away from the TV studio 392 00:17:36,419 --> 00:17:33,850 thinking oh if only I had said this or 393 00:17:37,919 --> 00:17:36,429 only I have said that but I think you 394 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:37,929 did I think you did pretty well folks 395 00:17:42,030 --> 00:17:39,850 says that there's sort of two main 396 00:17:44,159 --> 00:17:42,040 things there's one that say that adult 397 00:17:46,230 --> 00:17:44,169 humans can you know choose to ignore 398 00:17:48,299 --> 00:17:46,240 medical advice and elect to use 399 00:17:50,669 --> 00:17:48,309 homeopathy even though it's been proven 400 00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:50,679 not to work whereas children and animals 401 00:17:54,990 --> 00:17:52,570 are completely dependent on the carers 402 00:17:56,669 --> 00:17:55,000 to make medical decisions for them so in 403 00:17:58,560 --> 00:17:56,679 that case I'd say it's unethical to 404 00:18:00,600 --> 00:17:58,570 force them to receive treatments have 405 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:00,610 been proven not to work as they have no 406 00:18:05,970 --> 00:18:03,010 choice in the matter and for me although 407 00:18:08,460 --> 00:18:05,980 you know I think homeopathy is a choice 408 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:08,470 if people want to use on themselves one 409 00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:09,970 reason to have a problem with vets using 410 00:18:13,110 --> 00:18:11,530 is because people put their trust in 411 00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:13,120 bets because they assume that the 412 00:18:17,070 --> 00:18:14,490 medical knowledge and training is 413 00:18:19,260 --> 00:18:17,080 scientifically sound and it's based on 414 00:18:21,659 --> 00:18:19,270 you know the latest medical research 415 00:18:24,990 --> 00:18:21,669 available and they don't expect to get 416 00:18:25,539 --> 00:18:25,000 the best personal beliefs and you know 417 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:25,549 and 418 00:18:37,330 --> 00:18:34,970 your trust in that doctor you know that 419 00:18:40,629 --> 00:18:37,340 would be a disservice and that would be 420 00:18:42,940 --> 00:18:40,639 unethical as well I think that's 421 00:18:45,190 --> 00:18:42,950 probably to the boys points I make and 422 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:45,200 I'm probably the final thing that I 423 00:18:50,799 --> 00:18:47,690 think is really important although the 424 00:18:52,450 --> 00:18:50,809 media has focused very much on pets 425 00:18:54,820 --> 00:18:52,460 because I guess that's most people's 426 00:18:56,950 --> 00:18:54,830 experience of vets and the media focused 427 00:19:00,279 --> 00:18:56,960 on pets that you know I'm from a farm 428 00:19:03,310 --> 00:19:00,289 myself and I know a lot of farmers try 429 00:19:05,169 --> 00:19:03,320 and use homeopathy in it because the 430 00:19:06,820 --> 00:19:05,179 farming climate new case pretty tough at 431 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:06,830 the moment and anything that would save 432 00:19:13,629 --> 00:19:10,970 costs they will try and it's it is awful 433 00:19:16,180 --> 00:19:13,639 if someone's pet dies unnecessarily I'd 434 00:19:18,039 --> 00:19:16,190 say it's more significant if a family 435 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:18,049 farm goes out of business because 436 00:19:22,989 --> 00:19:20,330 they're trying homeopathy rather than 437 00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:22,999 appropriate veterinary medical treatment 438 00:19:28,029 --> 00:19:25,129 that was required at the time you know 439 00:19:29,379 --> 00:19:28,039 that's a that that's that's more than 440 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:29,389 just the welfare of an animal that 441 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:32,570 people's livelihood as well isn't it or 442 00:19:37,810 --> 00:19:34,850 Danny all the best to you I hope that 443 00:19:39,039 --> 00:19:37,820 this petition really goes far it's going 444 00:19:43,570 --> 00:19:39,049 far at the moment folks 445 00:19:45,009 --> 00:19:43,580 the petition is at change.org and I as I 446 00:19:47,470 --> 00:19:45,019 said before I'll certainly link to that 447 00:19:50,830 --> 00:19:47,480 in the show notes so you too can read 448 00:19:52,749 --> 00:19:50,840 the the petition and hopefully sign it 449 00:19:54,970 --> 00:19:52,759 but for now Danny chambers thank you 450 00:19:56,379 --> 00:19:54,980 very much great to talk with you and now 451 00:19:57,849 --> 00:19:56,389 maybe we can catch up with you a bit 452 00:19:58,859 --> 00:19:57,859 down the track to see how things are 453 00:20:00,999 --> 00:19:58,869 going 454 00:20:02,470 --> 00:20:01,009 yeah that'd be great thanks for speaking 455 00:20:03,999 --> 00:20:02,480 to me all the way from Australia I 456 00:20:06,580 --> 00:20:04,009 didn't think that make international 457 00:20:09,269 --> 00:20:06,590 news oh it certainly has Denny Chambers 458 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:09,279 dr. Denny chambers thank you very much 459 00:20:18,780 --> 00:20:11,410 thank you 460 00:20:20,460 --> 00:20:18,790 a call to ban veterinary surgeons from 461 00:20:24,650 --> 00:20:20,470 prescribing homeopathy as a treatment 462 00:20:27,330 --> 00:20:24,660 for animals by Danny chambers at 463 00:20:29,310 --> 00:20:27,340 change.org the following is an open 464 00:20:31,620 --> 00:20:29,320 letter to the Royal College of 465 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:31,630 Veterinary Surgeons to ask them to 466 00:20:36,750 --> 00:20:34,690 blacklist homeopathy from the treatments 467 00:20:40,380 --> 00:20:36,760 veterinary surgeons are allowed to offer 468 00:20:41,730 --> 00:20:40,390 animals and their owners we believe that 469 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:41,740 the current position of allowing 470 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:43,330 veterinary surgeons to prescribe 471 00:20:49,140 --> 00:20:45,490 homeopathic treatments which have been 472 00:20:51,660 --> 00:20:49,150 proven not to work is both an animal 473 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:51,670 welfare issue and fails to meet the 474 00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:53,890 standard required for scientific 475 00:20:59,880 --> 00:20:56,170 veterinary practice this is a disservice 476 00:21:01,530 --> 00:20:59,890 to the animals from their owners an open 477 00:21:03,650 --> 00:21:01,540 letter to the Royal College of entry 478 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:03,660 surgeons regarding veterinary homeopathy 479 00:21:08,580 --> 00:21:06,210 many systematic reviews and 480 00:21:11,100 --> 00:21:08,590 meta-analysis have proved conclusively 481 00:21:13,770 --> 00:21:11,110 that homeopathic treatments have no 482 00:21:16,830 --> 00:21:13,780 effect beyond the placebo effect the 483 00:21:19,530 --> 00:21:16,840 Cochrane review in 2010 being a notable 484 00:21:21,690 --> 00:21:19,540 one the House of Commons Science and 485 00:21:24,330 --> 00:21:21,700 Technology Committee concluded that the 486 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:24,340 NHS National Health Service should not 487 00:21:28,950 --> 00:21:27,010 waste public money and risk lives by 488 00:21:30,990 --> 00:21:28,960 funding homeopathic treatments which 489 00:21:33,210 --> 00:21:31,000 have been clearly proven to have no 490 00:21:35,550 --> 00:21:33,220 effect beyond the placebo effect it 491 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:35,560 could be argued that as homeopathy has 492 00:21:40,290 --> 00:21:37,930 no effect beyond placebo the use of it 493 00:21:42,210 --> 00:21:40,300 is not a cause for concern however we 494 00:21:44,370 --> 00:21:42,220 believe the use of homeopathic remedies 495 00:21:46,050 --> 00:21:44,380 by veterinary surgeons is potentially 496 00:21:49,110 --> 00:21:46,060 dangerous for several reasons the 497 00:21:51,270 --> 00:21:49,120 biggest danger of homeopathy is not that 498 00:21:52,770 --> 00:21:51,280 the remedies are ineffective but that 499 00:21:54,870 --> 00:21:52,780 some homeopaths 500 00:21:56,820 --> 00:21:54,880 are of the opinion that their therapies 501 00:22:00,000 --> 00:21:56,830 can substitute for genuine medical 502 00:22:01,980 --> 00:22:00,010 treatment this is at best misleading and 503 00:22:04,860 --> 00:22:01,990 at worst may lead to unnecessary 504 00:22:07,110 --> 00:22:04,870 suffering and death at what level of 505 00:22:09,510 --> 00:22:07,120 significance does homeopathy become a 506 00:22:12,300 --> 00:22:09,520 concern to the profession if 507 00:22:14,070 --> 00:22:12,310 Vetri homeopaths wish to believe that 508 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:14,080 their treatment has quickened the 509 00:22:18,990 --> 00:22:17,410 resolution of ringworm on a dog then no 510 00:22:21,570 --> 00:22:19,000 one would begrudge than that 511 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:21,580 however substituting effective and 512 00:22:24,870 --> 00:22:23,170 appropriate treatment with homeopathy 513 00:22:27,210 --> 00:22:24,880 for more serious disease 514 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:27,220 such as type of thyroidism in a cat 515 00:22:32,340 --> 00:22:30,250 could result in a potential tragedy for 516 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:32,350 the owner of a much-loved companion 517 00:22:36,630 --> 00:22:34,090 animal similarly it would be devastating 518 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:36,640 for a family dairy farm that went out of 519 00:22:41,310 --> 00:22:38,410 business because the homeopathic 520 00:22:44,100 --> 00:22:41,320 treatments failed to control a mastitis 521 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:44,110 problem we believe homeopaths are acting 522 00:22:48,030 --> 00:22:46,570 with good intentions we have no doubt 523 00:22:50,250 --> 00:22:48,040 that the majority of them are very 524 00:22:52,290 --> 00:22:50,260 sincere in their beliefs but if they are 525 00:22:54,420 --> 00:22:52,300 not capable of assessing the evidence 526 00:22:56,190 --> 00:22:54,430 for themselves then it must fall to a 527 00:22:59,070 --> 00:22:56,200 third party to prevent them from 528 00:23:01,770 --> 00:22:59,080 promoting these beliefs on to the public 529 00:23:03,690 --> 00:23:01,780 who rightfully put their faith in the 530 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:03,700 medical knowledge that the letters M our 531 00:23:09,630 --> 00:23:07,570 CVS after a name implies members of the 532 00:23:12,630 --> 00:23:09,640 public put their trust in veterinary 533 00:23:14,130 --> 00:23:12,640 surgeons because they assume that their 534 00:23:16,950 --> 00:23:14,140 medical knowledge and training was 535 00:23:20,250 --> 00:23:16,960 gained during an accredited degree at an 536 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:20,260 accredited university they do not assume 537 00:23:25,170 --> 00:23:22,570 that they will be offered the veterinary 538 00:23:28,770 --> 00:23:25,180 surgeons personal beliefs in therapies 539 00:23:30,750 --> 00:23:28,780 that have absolutely no basis in science 540 00:23:32,580 --> 00:23:30,760 we are not advocating that every single 541 00:23:35,010 --> 00:23:32,590 treatment administered by veterinary 542 00:23:37,740 --> 00:23:35,020 surgeons must be proven and extensively 543 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:37,750 evidence-based indeed it is possible 544 00:23:42,060 --> 00:23:39,970 that almost half of the treatments 545 00:23:45,510 --> 00:23:42,070 provided by the National Health Service 546 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:45,520 are of unknown efficacy however there is 547 00:23:50,610 --> 00:23:47,770 normally illogical clinical reasoning 548 00:23:53,010 --> 00:23:50,620 behind many of our mainstream treatments 549 00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:53,020 as opposed to homeopathic remedies which 550 00:23:58,320 --> 00:23:55,450 have been shown to have no rational 551 00:23:59,880 --> 00:23:58,330 basis in medicine what so ever we would 552 00:24:01,770 --> 00:23:59,890 argue that permitting veterinary 553 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:01,780 surgeons to prescribe homeopathic 554 00:24:06,810 --> 00:24:04,450 remedies is severely contrary to the 555 00:24:09,660 --> 00:24:06,820 public and animal health interest in our 556 00:24:12,270 --> 00:24:09,670 opinion homeopaths should not be able to 557 00:24:14,010 --> 00:24:12,280 use their membership of the Arts CVS to 558 00:24:17,250 --> 00:24:14,020 promote either the validity of the 559 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:17,260 treatment or the fee for it where do we 560 00:24:22,500 --> 00:24:19,090 draw the line for what members of the 561 00:24:25,110 --> 00:24:22,510 our CVS are allowed to offer clients if 562 00:24:28,290 --> 00:24:25,120 we genuinely believe it can help can we 563 00:24:31,170 --> 00:24:28,300 also offer crystal healing Reiki or 564 00:24:33,390 --> 00:24:31,180 psychic healing all recommended under 565 00:24:36,690 --> 00:24:33,400 our professional opinions as members of 566 00:24:38,100 --> 00:24:36,700 the our CVS can reduce our standing as 567 00:24:41,660 --> 00:24:38,110 veterinary surgeons to 568 00:24:44,490 --> 00:24:41,670 fees for and add legitimacy to these 569 00:24:46,470 --> 00:24:44,500 services so why do homeopaths would 570 00:24:48,450 --> 00:24:46,480 they're equally unproven evidence base 571 00:24:51,299 --> 00:24:48,460 somehow come under exception from this 572 00:24:53,070 --> 00:24:51,309 is it appropriate for our CVS approved 573 00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:53,080 practice to be allowed to offer 574 00:24:57,330 --> 00:24:55,090 homeopathy as a service 575 00:24:59,490 --> 00:24:57,340 given the current our CVS promotion of 576 00:25:01,860 --> 00:24:59,500 evidence-based medicine there seems to 577 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:01,870 be a contradiction when encouraging vets 578 00:25:06,450 --> 00:25:03,970 to gain accredited and rigorous 579 00:25:08,730 --> 00:25:06,460 postgraduate qualifications yet also 580 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:08,740 permitting homeopaths to place their 581 00:25:15,690 --> 00:25:11,530 various homeopathic qualifications 582 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:15,700 alongside their EMR CVS suffix although 583 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:17,530 within the veterinary profession we 584 00:25:22,169 --> 00:25:18,730 understand the difference between 585 00:25:23,789 --> 00:25:22,179 various certificates and diplomas many 586 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:23,799 members of the general public will 587 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:25,690 simply be impressed by the number of 588 00:25:34,620 --> 00:25:29,530 letters after the name allowing the ve T 589 00:25:37,799 --> 00:25:34,630 FM h om to be alongside m our CVS 590 00:25:40,530 --> 00:25:37,809 bestows upon it a status it does not 591 00:25:44,100 --> 00:25:40,540 deserve we firmly believe that being a 592 00:25:47,490 --> 00:25:44,110 mr CVS should differentiate us from the 593 00:25:50,130 --> 00:25:47,500 various unlicensed healers should they 594 00:25:51,780 --> 00:25:50,140 wish to adult humans have the right to 595 00:25:54,539 --> 00:25:51,790 the side that they want to ignore 596 00:25:56,580 --> 00:25:54,549 scientific wisdom and elect for unproven 597 00:25:59,039 --> 00:25:56,590 or dangerous therapies the health of 598 00:26:01,650 --> 00:25:59,049 animals is totally in the hands of 599 00:26:03,810 --> 00:26:01,660 humans charged with their care so it 600 00:26:06,360 --> 00:26:03,820 would appear to be unethical to withhold 601 00:26:08,340 --> 00:26:06,370 main stream medicine and inflict 602 00:26:10,860 --> 00:26:08,350 alternatives on creatures that have no 603 00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:10,870 choice in the matter we are aware that 604 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:13,090 an open letter of the same sentiment was 605 00:26:19,260 --> 00:26:16,570 written to the our CVS back in 2006 606 00:26:21,590 --> 00:26:19,270 however with the recent decision by the 607 00:26:23,909 --> 00:26:21,600 government to hold a consultation into 608 00:26:26,130 --> 00:26:23,919 blacklisting homeopathy on the National 609 00:26:28,140 --> 00:26:26,140 Health Service would it not be wonderful 610 00:26:29,460 --> 00:26:28,150 for the veterinary profession to show 611 00:26:32,460 --> 00:26:29,470 its commitment to evidence-based 612 00:26:35,190 --> 00:26:32,470 medicine by leading the way in taking a 613 00:26:37,860 --> 00:26:35,200 definite firm stance on this matter 614 00:26:39,630 --> 00:26:37,870 to summarize we believe the Royal 615 00:26:41,430 --> 00:26:39,640 College of Veterinary Surgeons should 616 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:41,440 not allow members to prescribe 617 00:26:48,090 --> 00:26:44,890 homeopathy because one it is an animal 618 00:26:50,370 --> 00:26:48,100 welfare issue two it undermines public 619 00:26:51,310 --> 00:26:50,380 confidence in mainstream medicine three 620 00:26:53,110 --> 00:26:51,320 you would further 621 00:26:55,990 --> 00:26:53,120 differentiate veterinary surgeons from 622 00:26:58,480 --> 00:26:56,000 unlicensed healers for it devalues 623 00:27:01,150 --> 00:26:58,490 conventional treatments five it devalues 624 00:27:03,130 --> 00:27:01,160 conventional qualifications and six it 625 00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:03,140 would allow the veterinary profession to 626 00:27:08,290 --> 00:27:06,050 take the lead forging the way for our 627 00:27:24,340 --> 00:27:08,300 human medical counterparts to do the 628 00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:24,350 same the skeptic magazine the Journal 629 00:27:29,230 --> 00:27:26,810 from Australian skeptics subscribe 630 00:27:33,790 --> 00:27:29,240 online to the world's second oldest 631 00:27:36,310 --> 00:27:33,800 skeptical magazine visit WWF Descamps 632 00:27:39,970 --> 00:27:36,320 delay you and click the publication's 633 00:27:43,260 --> 00:27:39,980 link you can also find there over 30 634 00:27:46,750 --> 00:27:43,270 years on back issues free to download 635 00:28:12,620 --> 00:27:46,760 the skeptic magazine from Australian 636 00:28:16,700 --> 00:28:14,810 now here's an update to a story we 637 00:28:17,180 --> 00:28:16,710 brought you way back in February of this 638 00:28:20,540 --> 00:28:17,190 year 639 00:28:26,630 --> 00:28:20,550 I never sowed 383 of the skeptic zone a 640 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:26,640 look at why fried the fallout from ABC 641 00:28:31,310 --> 00:28:28,410 TV here in Australia their science 642 00:28:34,580 --> 00:28:31,320 program catalyst broadcasting a story 643 00:28:38,810 --> 00:28:34,590 which many thought was more or less 644 00:28:41,150 --> 00:28:38,820 scaremongering about Wi-Fi radiation and 645 00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:41,160 mobile phone radiation and this update 646 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:43,770 comes to us from The Sydney Morning 647 00:28:51,170 --> 00:28:47,730 Herald written by Matthew not ABC's 648 00:28:54,170 --> 00:28:51,180 catalyst under review Reporter suspended 649 00:28:57,020 --> 00:28:54,180 after damaging review on Wi-Fi program 650 00:28:59,300 --> 00:28:57,030 the ABC will apologise to its viewers 651 00:29:01,300 --> 00:28:59,310 and review its science programme 652 00:29:03,470 --> 00:29:01,310 catalyst after an independent 653 00:29:06,380 --> 00:29:03,480 investigation found a controversial 654 00:29:08,630 --> 00:29:06,390 episode on the potential health risks of 655 00:29:11,540 --> 00:29:08,640 Wi-Fi that went to air only this year 656 00:29:13,910 --> 00:29:11,550 breached its editorial standards the 657 00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:13,920 damaging finding which will see reporter 658 00:29:18,140 --> 00:29:16,770 Mary and Macey suspended from on-air 659 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:18,150 assignments until at least September 660 00:29:22,970 --> 00:29:20,490 comes two years after a similar 661 00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:22,980 investigation slammed the catalyst 662 00:29:27,740 --> 00:29:25,050 program for questioning the use of 663 00:29:29,930 --> 00:29:27,750 cholesterol reducing medications as with 664 00:29:33,380 --> 00:29:29,940 the earlier programme on cholesterol the 665 00:29:35,510 --> 00:29:33,390 Wi-Fi episode will be removed from the 666 00:29:38,180 --> 00:29:35,520 internet as an aside it's a good thing 667 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:38,190 some of us kept a copy prominent 668 00:29:43,070 --> 00:29:40,410 scientists attacked the February 669 00:29:45,620 --> 00:29:43,080 programme at the time as scare mongering 670 00:29:48,980 --> 00:29:45,630 and unscientific for questioning the 671 00:29:51,170 --> 00:29:48,990 links between Wi-Fi and brain tumors now 672 00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:51,180 an investigation by the ABCs audience 673 00:29:56,090 --> 00:29:53,730 and Consumer Affairs Unit has found it 674 00:29:57,980 --> 00:29:56,100 breached the broadcaster standards quote 675 00:29:59,600 --> 00:29:57,990 while accepting the importance of 676 00:30:00,970 --> 00:29:59,610 investigating public health issues 677 00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:00,980 relating to safety and technology 678 00:30:06,290 --> 00:30:04,290 audience and consumer affairs concluded 679 00:30:08,990 --> 00:30:06,300 that the episode breached the ABCs 680 00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:09,000 editorial policy standard on accuracy 681 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:12,810 and impartiality in quote ABC director 682 00:30:18,100 --> 00:30:14,970 of television Richard Finlayson said 683 00:30:20,930 --> 00:30:18,110 quote the ABC accepts the finding and 684 00:30:23,270 --> 00:30:20,940 acknowledges that errors were made in 685 00:30:24,470 --> 00:30:23,280 the preparation and ultimate approval of 686 00:30:27,020 --> 00:30:24,480 the programme unquote 687 00:30:29,060 --> 00:30:27,030 the review found quote a number of 688 00:30:31,460 --> 00:30:29,070 inaccuracies in the program that had 689 00:30:34,220 --> 00:30:31,470 favored the unorthodox view that mobile 690 00:30:36,980 --> 00:30:34,230 phones and Wi-Fi causes health impacts 691 00:30:41,030 --> 00:30:36,990 including brain tumors in quote mr. 692 00:30:43,100 --> 00:30:41,040 Finlayson said the ABC would one make an 693 00:30:46,490 --> 00:30:43,110 announcement about the findings on 694 00:30:49,820 --> 00:30:46,500 Tuesday night's catalyst to remove the 695 00:30:51,950 --> 00:30:49,830 episode titled why fried from the 696 00:30:53,780 --> 00:30:51,960 catalyst website three published 697 00:30:56,690 --> 00:30:53,790 information about the findings on the 698 00:31:00,350 --> 00:30:56,700 catalyst website and ABC corrections 699 00:31:03,170 --> 00:31:00,360 page we read on more broadly the ABC 700 00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:03,180 will review the strategy and direction 701 00:31:07,940 --> 00:31:05,730 for the popular program until that 702 00:31:08,300 --> 00:31:07,950 review is completed in September dr. de 703 00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:08,310 Macey 704 00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:10,770 who also fronted the cholesterol program 705 00:31:15,740 --> 00:31:13,530 will not be part of any on-air 706 00:31:18,230 --> 00:31:15,750 assignments Rodney Croft 707 00:31:20,450 --> 00:31:18,240 a global authority on health effects of 708 00:31:22,310 --> 00:31:20,460 radiation and professor of public health 709 00:31:24,290 --> 00:31:22,320 psychology at the University of 710 00:31:27,890 --> 00:31:24,300 Wollongong said at the time that the 711 00:31:29,510 --> 00:31:27,900 program had given way to quote a fringe 712 00:31:31,910 --> 00:31:29,520 position that is not supported by 713 00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:31,920 science I was particularly disappointed 714 00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:34,770 to see why fried ed yesterday in the 715 00:31:38,630 --> 00:31:36,930 guise of science journalism and quote he 716 00:31:40,610 --> 00:31:38,640 said quote have given that 717 00:31:42,590 --> 00:31:40,620 radiofrequency admissions are one of the 718 00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:42,600 most heavily researched agents that 719 00:31:47,450 --> 00:31:45,210 science has ever assessed and given that 720 00:31:49,490 --> 00:31:47,460 contrary to catalyst claims no 721 00:31:51,650 --> 00:31:49,500 substantial health effects have emerged 722 00:31:53,930 --> 00:31:51,660 we can be very confident that the 723 00:31:57,560 --> 00:31:53,940 emissions are indeed safe and quote 724 00:32:00,440 --> 00:31:57,570 professor Croft said in 2013 ABC health 725 00:32:02,990 --> 00:32:00,450 specialist Norman Swan launched an 726 00:32:04,910 --> 00:32:03,000 extraordinary tack on catalyst saying to 727 00:32:05,420 --> 00:32:04,920 broadcast on cholesterol and heart 728 00:32:07,940 --> 00:32:05,430 attacks 729 00:32:10,460 --> 00:32:07,950 might cause people to die if they went 730 00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:10,470 off their medications in May 2014 the 731 00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:13,530 ABC removed both episodes from the 732 00:32:18,710 --> 00:32:16,010 catalyst website after an investigation 733 00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:18,720 found one programme had breached the 734 00:32:24,890 --> 00:32:22,410 broadcaster's editorial standards and as 735 00:32:27,410 --> 00:32:24,900 another aside it's interesting to note 736 00:32:29,870 --> 00:32:27,420 as sceptic zone listeners may well 737 00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:29,880 remember I've discussed a company called 738 00:32:38,450 --> 00:32:34,530 patched P a TCH apostrophe D who are 739 00:32:40,910 --> 00:32:38,460 marketing a little patch little square 740 00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:40,920 you stick on the back of cellphones to 741 00:32:48,470 --> 00:32:44,490 stop that naughty radiation you can find 742 00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:48,480 them on Facebook patched and I noticed 743 00:32:52,010 --> 00:32:50,130 that they are actually mentioning this 744 00:32:54,830 --> 00:32:52,020 story because they're whole the whole 745 00:32:57,860 --> 00:32:54,840 basis of their business is to suggest 746 00:33:00,080 --> 00:32:57,870 that a Wi-Fi and cell phone radiation is 747 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:00,090 dangerous to your health and if you buy 748 00:33:04,670 --> 00:33:03,090 their little patch it will stop that so 749 00:33:08,090 --> 00:33:04,680 they're running the story on their 750 00:33:11,540 --> 00:33:08,100 Facebook page ABC boughs to quote vested 751 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:11,550 interest in quote pressure retracts the 752 00:33:16,540 --> 00:33:14,130 catalyst wife ID program you might want 753 00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:16,550 to check them out on Facebook and well 754 00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:34,770 maybe leave a comment yourself hi this 755 00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:36,690 is Heidi Robertson from the Northern 756 00:33:42,290 --> 00:33:39,570 Rivers vaccination supporters we are a 757 00:33:44,330 --> 00:33:42,300 group of concerned citizens dedicated to 758 00:33:47,030 --> 00:33:44,340 promoting good science and common sense 759 00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:47,040 in our region the far north coast of New 760 00:33:52,450 --> 00:33:50,130 South Wales this area are famous for its 761 00:33:55,070 --> 00:33:52,460 natural beauty and relaxed lifestyle 762 00:33:58,760 --> 00:33:55,080 also has the lowest rates of vaccination 763 00:34:00,410 --> 00:33:58,770 in Australia we are out to change that 764 00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:00,420 by challenging the myths and 765 00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:03,210 misinformation and by providing good 766 00:34:06,110 --> 00:34:05,370 evidence-based information to the 767 00:34:08,630 --> 00:34:06,120 community 768 00:34:11,140 --> 00:34:08,640 we'd love for you no matter where you 769 00:34:18,980 --> 00:34:11,150 are in the world to join our fight 770 00:34:21,140 --> 00:34:18,990 please visit our webpage at WWF in folk 771 00:34:25,370 --> 00:34:21,150 we also have a link there to our 772 00:34:28,610 --> 00:34:25,380 Facebook page tweet us at in our FAQs 773 00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:28,620 supporters that's VIX and check us out 774 00:34:33,540 --> 00:34:31,410 on Wikipedia by searching for Northern 775 00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:33,550 Rivers vaccinations 776 00:35:05,100 --> 00:34:54,820 the cast files with dr. Cassandra 777 00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:05,110 Perryman today on the cast files its 778 00:35:18,250 --> 00:35:15,770 psychologist versus psychic paced on the 779 00:35:21,220 --> 00:35:18,260 hot predictions for 2015 in the psychics 780 00:35:23,950 --> 00:35:21,230 directory we can look and see how well a 781 00:35:26,230 --> 00:35:23,960 psychic actually hits the mark when a 782 00:35:29,230 --> 00:35:26,240 statistician goes back and looks at the 783 00:35:33,510 --> 00:35:29,240 results first we're gonna talk about the 784 00:35:35,740 --> 00:35:33,520 predictions made about Australia first 785 00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:35,750 Frances Bevin stated there will be a 786 00:35:41,050 --> 00:35:37,970 lone wolf terrorist attack in Melbourne 787 00:35:45,940 --> 00:35:41,060 it will disrupt the train lines namely 788 00:35:48,790 --> 00:35:45,950 Flinders Street Station well that didn't 789 00:35:50,740 --> 00:35:48,800 actually happen there was a minor news 790 00:35:52,810 --> 00:35:50,750 story about a 17 year old who was 791 00:35:53,380 --> 00:35:52,820 planning an attack in Melbourne but was 792 00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:53,390 caught 793 00:35:57,430 --> 00:35:55,370 there was no disruption to the train 794 00:36:01,140 --> 00:35:57,440 lines and the attack didn't happen so 795 00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:01,150 definitely a miss that also goes with 796 00:36:05,530 --> 00:36:04,010 wagons samwell's prediction that says 797 00:36:07,240 --> 00:36:05,540 especially Sydney and Melbourne will 798 00:36:09,490 --> 00:36:07,250 experience several attempts from 799 00:36:11,230 --> 00:36:09,500 terrorist groups and one of our beaches 800 00:36:13,330 --> 00:36:11,240 will be targeted water electricity 801 00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:13,340 supplies and telecommunications will be 802 00:36:18,940 --> 00:36:16,130 impacted obviously that also didn't 803 00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:18,950 happen prediction number two the 804 00:36:23,530 --> 00:36:21,050 Australia dollar will continue to weaken 805 00:36:27,910 --> 00:36:23,540 this year that was made by Harry T and 806 00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:27,920 well yes that happened but that didn't 807 00:36:32,710 --> 00:36:30,290 require a psychic economists in about 808 00:36:34,240 --> 00:36:32,720 2011 said that because of the change in 809 00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:34,250 the housing market there'd be 810 00:36:37,980 --> 00:36:36,170 alterations to the global economy which 811 00:36:42,190 --> 00:36:37,990 means the Australian dollar would also 812 00:36:45,130 --> 00:36:42,200 readjust and decline no psychic needed 813 00:36:47,740 --> 00:36:45,140 for that next we get into Tony Abbott's 814 00:36:49,450 --> 00:36:47,750 leadership will be challenged and he 815 00:36:51,490 --> 00:36:49,460 will not lead the Liberal Party to the 816 00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:51,500 next election he will not be replaced by 817 00:36:55,390 --> 00:36:54,050 haki labour will win the next election 818 00:36:58,150 --> 00:36:55,400 which is unusual as norm 819 00:37:01,359 --> 00:36:58,160 a party will be elected in for two terms 820 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:01,369 well that was Suzie cherubs prediction 821 00:37:07,720 --> 00:37:04,010 and it didn't exactly match the odd 822 00:37:10,150 --> 00:37:07,730 turnovers that occurred nor the highly 823 00:37:12,250 --> 00:37:10,160 contested election that happened in 2016 824 00:37:16,240 --> 00:37:12,260 the next year so we're gonna have to 825 00:37:18,039 --> 00:37:16,250 call that one a Miss again the one hit I 826 00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:18,049 found in the Australian section of the 827 00:37:22,690 --> 00:37:20,690 predictions was journalist Peter greased 828 00:37:25,390 --> 00:37:22,700 will be released in living in Australia 829 00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:25,400 by March that did happen he was released 830 00:37:30,940 --> 00:37:27,650 by Egypt and deported to Australia on 831 00:37:34,870 --> 00:37:30,950 the 1st of February that said his 832 00:37:37,809 --> 00:37:34,880 release was also very predictable based 833 00:37:39,809 --> 00:37:37,819 on how his trial in Egypt was going at 834 00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:39,819 the beginning of 2015 835 00:37:43,390 --> 00:37:42,650 moving on to entertainment these ones 836 00:37:46,390 --> 00:37:43,400 are really fun 837 00:37:47,799 --> 00:37:46,400 the first prediction by Mariah Rose was 838 00:37:50,529 --> 00:37:47,809 that George Clooney and his new lawyer 839 00:37:53,529 --> 00:37:50,539 wife will have twins a boy and a girl no 840 00:37:55,510 --> 00:37:53,539 I see a health concern around Keith 841 00:37:59,109 --> 00:37:55,520 Richards from the Rolling Stones again 842 00:38:01,150 --> 00:37:59,119 says Harry T and know somehow Keith 843 00:38:03,609 --> 00:38:01,160 Richards just continues to defy the odds 844 00:38:04,859 --> 00:38:03,619 and I at this point think he actually is 845 00:38:07,359 --> 00:38:04,869 well-preserved 846 00:38:09,130 --> 00:38:07,369 Michael Keaton will win an Oscar for his 847 00:38:12,039 --> 00:38:09,140 role in Birdman that's by Siouxsie 848 00:38:15,670 --> 00:38:12,049 cherubim well the Birdman did win best 849 00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:15,680 picture but no not Michael Keaton 850 00:38:20,589 --> 00:38:18,650 they'll be backlash for a reality TV 851 00:38:23,319 --> 00:38:20,599 show after some kind of tragedy is 852 00:38:24,849 --> 00:38:23,329 connected to a contestant this will 853 00:38:27,220 --> 00:38:24,859 prompt other participants to step 854 00:38:29,349 --> 00:38:27,230 forward and tell their stories this is 855 00:38:31,329 --> 00:38:29,359 by Lela Williams well Lela there was a 856 00:38:33,609 --> 00:38:31,339 helicopter crash that killed 10 people 857 00:38:35,740 --> 00:38:33,619 during the shooting of a French reality 858 00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:35,750 TV show but it wasn't a single 859 00:38:40,359 --> 00:38:38,450 contestant nobody came forward to tell 860 00:38:42,010 --> 00:38:40,369 similar stories and the helicopter 861 00:38:45,849 --> 00:38:42,020 accident was just a horrible horrible 862 00:38:48,370 --> 00:38:45,859 tragedy next Suzy cherub who was a miss 863 00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:48,380 with Birdman also missed with her 864 00:38:53,470 --> 00:38:49,970 prediction that boyhood would clean up 865 00:38:56,230 --> 00:38:53,480 at the Oscars it won one Oscar for Best 866 00:38:59,319 --> 00:38:56,240 Supporting Actress so Suzy no more 867 00:39:01,299 --> 00:38:59,329 betting on the Oscars Harry T said I see 868 00:39:03,309 --> 00:39:01,309 another prominent Hollywood male actor 869 00:39:05,490 --> 00:39:03,319 committing suicide this year and I 870 00:39:08,019 --> 00:39:05,500 suppose that goes by what you consider 871 00:39:09,339 --> 00:39:08,029 prominent because the only Hollywood 872 00:39:12,069 --> 00:39:09,349 actor I could find that it can 873 00:39:14,890 --> 00:39:12,079 suicide in 2015 with Sawyer sweeten from 874 00:39:15,460 --> 00:39:14,900 Everybody Loves Raymond did did that 875 00:39:18,130 --> 00:39:15,470 count 876 00:39:19,870 --> 00:39:18,140 so Harry T I'm thinking I'm gonna have 877 00:39:23,109 --> 00:39:19,880 to also call that a mess so you missed 878 00:39:26,769 --> 00:39:23,119 on both suicide and Keith Richards as 879 00:39:28,599 --> 00:39:26,779 for the environment Harry T again he 880 00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:28,609 predicts I see large earthquakes 881 00:39:32,079 --> 00:39:29,930 happening in several parts of the world 882 00:39:34,150 --> 00:39:32,089 in particular California Mexico China 883 00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:34,160 and Japan which I find that prediction 884 00:39:39,039 --> 00:39:35,930 as a Californian very funny because 885 00:39:40,989 --> 00:39:39,049 we're all along the Ring of Fire but no 886 00:39:45,039 --> 00:39:40,999 there were no large earthquakes just the 887 00:39:46,269 --> 00:39:45,049 usual minor earthquakes next we have 888 00:39:48,039 --> 00:39:46,279 there will be some excitement over an 889 00:39:50,079 --> 00:39:48,049 Australian bird or small animal that was 890 00:39:52,029 --> 00:39:50,089 thought to be extinct by lila williams 891 00:39:54,370 --> 00:39:52,039 well that's called a Lazarus species and 892 00:39:58,359 --> 00:39:54,380 it happens all the time there was not 893 00:40:00,279 --> 00:39:58,369 really a specific 2015 Lazarus Elizabeth 894 00:40:02,170 --> 00:40:00,289 Jensen said that Ebola would continue to 895 00:40:03,819 --> 00:40:02,180 rage for two more months before in the 896 00:40:05,769 --> 00:40:03,829 already affected areas in Africa before 897 00:40:09,670 --> 00:40:05,779 it settled in March and be finished by 898 00:40:12,009 --> 00:40:09,680 June 2015 no me bowl has been around 899 00:40:13,660 --> 00:40:12,019 since 1976 and only hit the major 900 00:40:16,420 --> 00:40:13,670 spotlight because it landed in the 901 00:40:17,489 --> 00:40:16,430 United States it is still a major health 902 00:40:19,989 --> 00:40:17,499 concern 903 00:40:21,430 --> 00:40:19,999 Elizabeth Jensen says September OC 904 00:40:24,039 --> 00:40:21,440 concern around a new global health 905 00:40:27,219 --> 00:40:24,049 epidemic and it's a virus it's quite 906 00:40:31,109 --> 00:40:27,229 unusual and originates from perhaps 907 00:40:33,789 --> 00:40:31,119 Pakistan well that's a definite miss 908 00:40:35,289 --> 00:40:33,799 that's for the Royals Frances Bevin says 909 00:40:38,950 --> 00:40:35,299 that Prince Harry will announce plans to 910 00:40:43,029 --> 00:40:38,960 marry no Katyn Williams second baby will 911 00:40:46,959 --> 00:40:43,039 be a boy well no not at this juncture at 912 00:40:48,789 --> 00:40:46,969 least in the sports Suzy cherub says the 913 00:40:50,950 --> 00:40:48,799 Panthers will win the 2015 Rugby League 914 00:40:52,299 --> 00:40:50,960 grand final and well that only could 915 00:40:53,670 --> 00:40:52,309 have happened if they actually made it 916 00:40:56,829 --> 00:40:53,680 to the finals 917 00:40:59,079 --> 00:40:56,839 never elsker says a seriously impossibly 918 00:41:00,700 --> 00:40:59,089 fatal accident Monaco Grand Prix 919 00:41:04,509 --> 00:41:00,710 involving the Ferrari team what happened 920 00:41:06,279 --> 00:41:04,519 and that's also a No Frances Bevin says 921 00:41:08,529 --> 00:41:06,289 the world will see a major breakthrough 922 00:41:11,829 --> 00:41:08,539 in aviation and space travel that's a 923 00:41:14,589 --> 00:41:11,839 bit too vague to even be considered a 924 00:41:16,089 --> 00:41:14,599 hit or a miss as is Harry T's world 925 00:41:18,759 --> 00:41:16,099 prediction that there will be a concern 926 00:41:22,180 --> 00:41:18,769 around Indonesia and its safety that's 927 00:41:23,259 --> 00:41:22,190 very vague Elisabeth Jensen I how's my 928 00:41:25,419 --> 00:41:23,269 favorite miss with this 929 00:41:28,179 --> 00:41:25,429 1 an increase in terrorism by the group 930 00:41:30,489 --> 00:41:28,189 is also called Isis in February March 931 00:41:32,949 --> 00:41:30,499 2015 will sparked international outrage 932 00:41:35,409 --> 00:41:32,959 and quick retaliation and then by the 933 00:41:37,929 --> 00:41:35,419 end of March and April by May and early 934 00:41:40,799 --> 00:41:37,939 June they will retreat and be in total 935 00:41:44,229 --> 00:41:40,809 disarray known that that didn't happen 936 00:41:45,639 --> 00:41:44,239 now this goes again with European and 937 00:41:47,019 --> 00:41:45,649 Western governments will collaborate to 938 00:41:48,729 --> 00:41:47,029 fight terrorists a worldwide effort 939 00:41:52,059 --> 00:41:48,739 against terrorism could be called a 940 00:41:53,859 --> 00:41:52,069 third world war no no and then we get a 941 00:41:56,139 --> 00:41:53,869 couple of lovely lovely big ones that 942 00:41:57,549 --> 00:41:56,149 are just statistical probabilities 943 00:41:59,289 --> 00:41:57,559 really there'll be flooding in the 944 00:42:01,179 --> 00:41:59,299 provinces of Turkey that seriously 945 00:42:02,709 --> 00:42:01,189 affect agricultural industry and economy 946 00:42:04,689 --> 00:42:02,719 some homes and lives are at risk 947 00:42:07,509 --> 00:42:04,699 there's provinces in Turkey that flood 948 00:42:09,729 --> 00:42:07,519 almost every year and there was not a 949 00:42:11,109 --> 00:42:09,739 major flood that affected agriculture 950 00:42:14,620 --> 00:42:11,119 but there was a major flood that 951 00:42:16,569 --> 00:42:14,630 affected one city finally Egypt remains 952 00:42:18,939 --> 00:42:16,579 in repair and damage control mode for 953 00:42:21,009 --> 00:42:18,949 most of 2015 with no new major outbreaks 954 00:42:22,419 --> 00:42:21,019 of terrorism but there continues to be a 955 00:42:24,370 --> 00:42:22,429 small amount of damage to public 956 00:42:27,069 --> 00:42:24,380 buildings such as police stations in 957 00:42:29,559 --> 00:42:27,079 Cairo throughout the year well in 2015 958 00:42:31,449 --> 00:42:29,569 Egypt did have a fair bit of unrest but 959 00:42:33,789 --> 00:42:31,459 it was good under control relatively 960 00:42:37,779 --> 00:42:33,799 quickly and I'm gonna say Elizabeth you 961 00:42:42,039 --> 00:42:37,789 were a bit too vague there so no not 962 00:42:44,439 --> 00:42:42,049 really so as you can see a lot of these 963 00:42:47,889 --> 00:42:44,449 were a blatant mess and if not a mess 964 00:42:51,129 --> 00:42:47,899 the prediction itself was either just a 965 00:42:52,870 --> 00:42:51,139 statistical likelihood or a big 966 00:42:55,929 --> 00:42:52,880 statement so I say for the hot 967 00:42:58,089 --> 00:42:55,939 predictions of 2015 this is a score for 968 00:43:15,960 --> 00:42:58,099 the psychologists and a miss for the 969 00:43:19,990 --> 00:43:18,430 today this is dr. Karl Karl Chris must 970 00:43:22,180 --> 00:43:20,000 be proud to be skeptic and you can find 971 00:43:41,820 --> 00:43:22,190 out more about me at dr. Karl calm and 972 00:43:45,820 --> 00:43:43,960 while we're here at skeptics in the pub 973 00:43:48,310 --> 00:43:45,830 and it's great to see so many first-time 974 00:43:49,900 --> 00:43:48,320 has come along here to Sydney's skeptics 975 00:43:52,810 --> 00:43:49,910 in the pub the first Thursday of every 976 00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:52,820 month at the Crown Hotel details that 977 00:43:58,420 --> 00:43:54,770 skeptics dot-com delay you hello 978 00:44:00,040 --> 00:43:58,430 everybody good evening oh what a turnout 979 00:44:06,820 --> 00:44:00,050 we have been having a lot of fun tonight 980 00:44:09,190 --> 00:44:06,830 with spoons spoon bending lessons Claire 981 00:44:13,570 --> 00:44:09,200 did you enjoy your spoon bending lesson 982 00:44:16,270 --> 00:44:13,580 I thought I'd be able to see you out but 983 00:44:19,060 --> 00:44:16,280 you tricked me again a psychic power I 984 00:44:21,510 --> 00:44:19,070 promised but now you know right now I 985 00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:21,520 teach you the entrance 986 00:44:26,830 --> 00:44:24,290 I'd be able to spy out Geller himself 987 00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:26,840 but you think you've been coming those 988 00:44:30,580 --> 00:44:28,130 skeptics in the pub for some time now I 989 00:44:36,210 --> 00:44:30,590 think a few years yeah yeah excellent oh 990 00:44:40,720 --> 00:44:39,010 what brought you along tonight I used to 991 00:44:42,940 --> 00:44:40,730 go to skeptics in the pub in Wellington 992 00:44:44,830 --> 00:44:42,950 in New Zealand all right yeah yeah so 993 00:44:46,540 --> 00:44:44,840 when they went there quite a bit and I 994 00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:46,550 went to the skeptic conference and 995 00:44:51,310 --> 00:44:48,890 things of that New Zealand so mutiny 996 00:44:53,650 --> 00:44:51,320 sorry back to Australia while ago so I 997 00:44:54,910 --> 00:44:53,660 saw this some Meetup and decided to pop 998 00:44:57,070 --> 00:44:54,920 along well thanks for coming along 999 00:44:59,860 --> 00:44:57,080 tonight's talk was about gravitational 1000 00:45:02,470 --> 00:44:59,870 waves and it was pretty interesting I 1001 00:45:05,530 --> 00:45:02,480 must admit it was it was a bit 1002 00:45:07,990 --> 00:45:05,540 mind-blowing very a bit technical in 1003 00:45:10,420 --> 00:45:08,000 places but really fascinating stuff but 1004 00:45:12,220 --> 00:45:10,430 we tried to have a very big selection of 1005 00:45:14,940 --> 00:45:12,230 talks here as skeptics in the pub and 1006 00:45:19,060 --> 00:45:14,950 what brought you along here tonight I 1007 00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:19,070 saw the skeptics in the pub on the meter 1008 00:45:22,450 --> 00:45:21,050 and thought it would be a really 1009 00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:22,460 interesting group to come along to 1010 00:45:25,930 --> 00:45:23,930 because I figured there would be great 1011 00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:25,940 conversation to the discussions and I'd 1012 00:45:30,059 --> 00:45:26,930 learn something 1013 00:45:32,309 --> 00:45:30,069 and I learned how to been Spence you did 1014 00:45:34,240 --> 00:45:32,319 and you probably know more about 1015 00:45:39,370 --> 00:45:34,250 gravitational waves that you have 1016 00:45:40,809 --> 00:45:39,380 absolutely and are you first-timers yes 1017 00:45:44,500 --> 00:45:40,819 what brought you long time you actually 1018 00:45:47,710 --> 00:45:44,510 came to skeptic the skeptics dinner like 1019 00:45:50,260 --> 00:45:47,720 a month ago the the psychic psychic 1020 00:45:53,349 --> 00:45:50,270 night yeah um and that was quite 1021 00:46:00,609 --> 00:45:53,359 interesting so this is this is the first 1022 00:46:06,010 --> 00:46:00,619 table mingle yes podcast aficionados I 1023 00:46:10,870 --> 00:46:06,020 guess so we wanted to meet same mind 1024 00:46:13,210 --> 00:46:10,880 like I'm very pleased to see you I hope 1025 00:46:15,490 --> 00:46:13,220 you enjoyed the evening that's great so 1026 00:46:16,930 --> 00:46:15,500 I hope I see you all again all the 1027 00:46:20,769 --> 00:46:16,940 people gathered around these poor broken 1028 00:46:22,390 --> 00:46:20,779 spoons on the table so again folks that 1029 00:46:23,829 --> 00:46:22,400 skeptics in the pub here in Sydney the 1030 00:46:26,260 --> 00:46:23,839 first Thursday of the month would just 1031 00:46:28,420 --> 00:46:26,270 check out Meetup Sydney skeptics or 1032 00:46:44,019 --> 00:46:28,430 skeptics comdata you and thank you again 1033 00:46:45,970 --> 00:46:44,029 everybody you've argued against the same 1034 00:46:46,299 --> 00:46:45,980 whoo so many times you can do it in your 1035 00:46:48,670 --> 00:46:46,309 sleep 1036 00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:48,680 quit trying to stop the nonsense one 1037 00:46:52,569 --> 00:46:49,490 person at a time 1038 00:46:54,700 --> 00:46:52,579 join guerrilla skepticism on Wikipedia 1039 00:46:56,170 --> 00:46:54,710 help us make sure the best skeptical 1040 00:46:56,829 --> 00:46:56,180 information is always at everyone's 1041 00:47:00,460 --> 00:46:56,839 fingertips 1042 00:47:02,829 --> 00:47:00,470 we need writers editors translators we 1043 00:47:05,710 --> 00:47:02,839 need you and take as much or as little 1044 00:47:08,170 --> 00:47:05,720 time as you can give us help us make 1045 00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:08,180 Wikipedia as accurate as it can be and 1046 00:47:12,519 --> 00:47:09,890 you'll literally be helping people while 1047 00:47:15,250 --> 00:47:12,529 you sleep to join us or find out more 1048 00:47:19,029 --> 00:47:15,260 send a facebook friend request to susan 1049 00:47:30,380 --> 00:47:19,039 gerbic that's ger b IC guerrilla 1050 00:47:35,250 --> 00:47:32,640 thank you for listening to the skeptic 1051 00:47:37,860 --> 00:47:35,260 zone and I must apologize at this point 1052 00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:37,870 to all those people who subscribe to the 1053 00:47:41,910 --> 00:47:39,010 YouTube channel 1054 00:47:45,540 --> 00:47:41,920 skeptics own podcast because just lately 1055 00:47:48,300 --> 00:47:45,550 I've put up all the back episodes of the 1056 00:47:50,550 --> 00:47:48,310 skeptic zone onto YouTube and it's sort 1057 00:47:52,580 --> 00:47:50,560 of well flooded a lot of people's 1058 00:47:54,930 --> 00:47:52,590 accounts so I'm very sorry about that oh 1059 00:47:57,090 --> 00:47:54,940 didn't see that coming I'm not psychic 1060 00:48:00,060 --> 00:47:57,100 now I should have seen it coming a lot 1061 00:48:03,920 --> 00:48:00,070 of people were surprised to see so many 1062 00:48:08,190 --> 00:48:03,930 episodes pop up and but I'm glad to say 1063 00:48:10,500 --> 00:48:08,200 though that people did a quick thing I 1064 00:48:14,070 --> 00:48:10,510 just unsubscribed and re subscribed so 1065 00:48:16,410 --> 00:48:14,080 now if you do subscribe to the skeptics 1066 00:48:19,050 --> 00:48:16,420 and podcast via YouTube and the links 1067 00:48:21,390 --> 00:48:19,060 are at skeptic zone TV every week on 1068 00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:21,400 your YouTube feed you'll get the new 1069 00:48:26,220 --> 00:48:23,650 episode of the skeptic zone and yeah a 1070 00:48:27,750 --> 00:48:26,230 lot of people these days that's how 1071 00:48:30,390 --> 00:48:27,760 they've listened to things and it's also 1072 00:48:33,210 --> 00:48:30,400 a great way to access all the back 1073 00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:33,220 episodes of the skeptic zone complete 1074 00:48:37,410 --> 00:48:35,530 with time codes so you can go to the 1075 00:48:39,180 --> 00:48:37,420 episode in question look in the 1076 00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:39,190 description in YouTube and just click on 1077 00:48:43,170 --> 00:48:41,290 the timecode number and goes straight to 1078 00:48:45,240 --> 00:48:43,180 the interview or the report you were 1079 00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:45,250 looking for and thank you again to those 1080 00:48:51,930 --> 00:48:47,770 people who are signing up via patreon 1081 00:48:55,050 --> 00:48:51,940 add skeptics on TV and your contribution 1082 00:48:58,110 --> 00:48:55,060 as I have said again and again means the 1083 00:49:00,690 --> 00:48:58,120 show keep scouting and I must say a big 1084 00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:00,700 thank you to our reporter Maynard who 1085 00:49:07,770 --> 00:49:05,410 had me along to the totally 80s tour 1086 00:49:10,470 --> 00:49:07,780 which he's doing at the moment he's the 1087 00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:10,480 emcee that's touring the country if you 1088 00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:13,090 google totally 80s you'll find out the 1089 00:49:17,490 --> 00:49:15,370 details about that that big tour I'll 1090 00:49:20,700 --> 00:49:17,500 put it in the show notes I was there to 1091 00:49:23,100 --> 00:49:20,710 do some work I was a Maenads camera 1092 00:49:25,410 --> 00:49:23,110 operator for the evening doing some 1093 00:49:27,450 --> 00:49:25,420 behind-the-scenes work and some video 1094 00:49:30,390 --> 00:49:27,460 production later on but what fun it was 1095 00:49:34,860 --> 00:49:30,400 I had a wonderful time lots of big acts 1096 00:49:38,220 --> 00:49:34,870 from the 1980s including Berlin Lamarr 1097 00:49:39,780 --> 00:49:38,230 from kajagoogoo Katrina from Katrina and 1098 00:49:40,850 --> 00:49:39,790 the waves and all sorts of people who 1099 00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:40,860 were 1100 00:49:45,799 --> 00:49:42,570 now the things you get to do when you're 1101 00:49:48,309 --> 00:49:45,809 a friend of Maynard I tell you 1102 00:50:05,680 --> 00:49:48,319 but for now this is Richard Saunders 1103 00:50:11,870 --> 00:50:08,059 you've been listening to the skeptic 1104 00:50:14,809 --> 00:50:11,880 zone podcast visit our website at WWF 1105 00:50:18,710 --> 00:50:14,819 tags on TV for contacts an archive of 1106 00:50:21,380 --> 00:50:18,720 all episodes since 2008 and our online 1107 00:50:24,069 --> 00:50:21,390 store please support the skeptic zone by 1108 00:50:27,079 --> 00:50:24,079 following us on Twitter at skeptic zone 1109 00:50:30,109 --> 00:50:27,089 liking us on Facebook and leaving a 1110 00:50:33,019 --> 00:50:30,119 review on iTunes you can also show your 1111 00:50:36,499 --> 00:50:33,029 support by subscribing via PayPal for as 1112 00:50:38,809 --> 00:50:36,509 little as 99 cents a week the skeptic 1113 00:50:40,609 --> 00:50:38,819 zone is an independent production the 1114 00:50:42,739 --> 00:50:40,619 views and opinions expressed on the 1115 00:50:45,309 --> 00:50:42,749 skeptic zone are not necessarily those